Episode 1 - EdFringe Day 5, Runi Talwah
How is Edinburgh Fringe going people ask….
And I say great. Like one would on a Monday in the lift.
But it is shit. Or it was until I sacked off my show and met up with Runi to start a podcast about the very thing my show was meant to be about.
Here it is. Please listen and then if you want - come hear me interview another brilliant success on how I’ve failed - and to learn from their success.
It’s generally the most fun I’ve had since, well since before the fringe.
Transcript
Pete: I'm Pete Wells and I'm up at Edinburgh Fringe with my show Success. So how's it going so far? Well I sat down with comedian Runi Talwar to chat success.
Okay. So this is how I was going to start the show.
Runi: Okay.
Voice Over Guy: Ladies and gentlemen, can you please welcome to the stage? Sorry. What's your name? Pete Wells. Pete Wells.
Pete: And then I'll come onto the stage. I'm like, yes, Pete Wells. Oh, this isn't really the success I was hoping for. Nice. And I mean, it really isn't because there really isn't.
There's nobody here.
Runi: There's nobody. I mean, I don't know if you, if the microphone's caught it, but I can hear someone in a different room in this venue.
Pete: I know, so that's the setup. So then I was gonna go, yeah. Okay. That wasn't really the success I was hoping for. I go stay, I go to my, my tech guy and we like, can we, can we try that again?
And he'll be going,
Voice Over Guy: are you sure you want to?
Pete: Yeah, no, I'm, I'm definitely sure. We've prerecorded this so we should do it.
Voice Over Guy: Okay. Well, Next time, just like pay for a tech guy. Right?
Pete: I did. And that's, I mean, and Runi that's half the problem because I paid for a tech guy and then I was gonna play this.
And this is my little background. Yeah. Cuz this is gonna be really, this is really successful now
Runi: For the listeners. There's some lovely light effects on Pete's iPad right now. Mm-hmm
Pete: which would be on the projector that I also spent money on.
Runi: I mean they're great effects. I have to admit lovely light effects.
Pete: Anyway. So this was gonna be my introduction to my 2022 Edinburg fringe show that I put a lot of work into. And as you could see Rudy as, as, and where we are,
Runi: As nobody here I can see.
Pete: Basically what we are doing right now is because it's it's 7: 20. My show is meant to be on at 7: 20, which it is.
And instead of doing the show because no one has turned up, except today, there was a guy who was gonna review the show. That was gonna be the only audience member and we sacked him off because no one is coming . And so,
Runi: I mean, to be honest, I would love to read that review.
Pete: Yeah. Well, the show is about success.
Runi: I mean, cuz in a way it's the most genius thing I've ever seen is to do a show called success where no one has showed up.
Pete: So anyways, I thought because no, one's turning up to my show and my show is about success that we would do a podcast about success because, and looking. Looking at this stay five in it's been a massive failure.
so
Runi: and firstly, I'm glad that, you know, there is a difference between success and failure.
Pete: Well, I guess. Okay. Well, how do you, well, let's start by talking. Let's introduce yourself.
Runi: I'm Runi. I don't, I'm not speaking to anyone in the room, but I am looking out into the empty room as I speak. I'm a comedian, I'm a standup comedian and Yeah, I think I'm feeling a lot better about my comedy at the moment right now, actually.
Pete: Right. Because you're looking at, mine and be like,
Runi: I feel I've made some good decisions in life comparatively. Now.
Pete: I think really you have. Let's start with the, the key basics of, of success. How old are you?
Runi: Well, great question. So. I turned 30 yesterday.
Pete: Oh, fantastic.
Runi: Yeah.
Pete: Had you, and you celebrated here.
Runi: I celebrated by flyering for four hours.
Pete: Great.
Runi: And then performing comedy to about 30 odd people. Again, I said 30 odd people. Like it's nothing. And then I look out at this empty room and I'm like, I feel like I'm bragging now,
Pete: comparatively. I think you're doing pretty well.
Yes. So 30, so you've yeah. So you turned 30 yesterday. Congratulations.
Runi: I turned 30. Thank you.
Pete: As Einstein said, if you haven't made a contribution to science by the time you're 30, you're not going to
Runi: that's great. That's actually, that actually makes a lot, a lot clear about what I can go with my life from now on with it.
Pete: So you've turned 30.
Runi: Yes.
Pete: Well it's first key question. Do you feel successful?
Runi: Resoundingly? No. It's an interesting question actually. Success to me has always been at least in the comedy perspective, being people know you and want to watch you do comedy. And I suppose I'm a little bit successful because. Some people know me. But, I think I probably wish more people knew me. Right.
Pete: So you, so, so your level of success is, is there a number, is there like, I want 10 people, like 10 BBC celebrities to know my name is there, like,
Runi: that's very funny. I mean, yes, but also no so that's really interesting cuz there was a, I think it's probably a Kitson quote that I've heard before. Yeah. But he said something along the lines of, if I can convince 2000 people. To give me like 20 quit a year and I can do it just doing comedy. That to me would be successful.
Pete: And have you always wanted to do comedy, like was comedy this?
Runi: No, not at all. I, I always wanted to be a cricketer
Pete: really?
Runi: Weirdly. Yeah.
Pete: And were you successful at that? Yeah.
Runi: No, not at all. It's very interesting with like sport, you become aware very quickly that there's like some people who will make it in professional sport. And the rest of you are playing a different game.
Pete: What were you trying to play?
Runi: I was playing cricket.
Pete: Okay. I was okay. Obviously stupid question, but like, well, what level did you get to?
Runi: So I got to, like, I got to what I like my school's first 11. Yeah. Which was quite cool. Didn't actually play a game for them. Did some fielding for them. And then mainly I played for the second 11, but it was all part of one pool. So, you know, when people ask, I say, I played for the first 11. Okay. So again, I didn't, but nobody's gonna die.
Pete: I don't really understand how old are you at this point?
Runi: This would be when I was 17.
Pete: Right. It seems like a, I mean, 17 is kind of where everyone kind of thinks they've got lofty aspirations to their life and they're like, oh yeah, I'm gonna do.
Runi: I was convinced I was gonna play professional.
Pete: And how long did this last what, what point did you.
Runi: Okay. I, I started thinking I could do it when I was probably like nine or 10 and then I think by the time I turned 18 and there was like, it was very clear how the good kick cricketers were so much better than the rest of us. that even, I couldn't pretend to myself that I could make it. You know, the thing with comedy is you could pretend that like you could be 50 and have no career, but then all of a sudden something clicks and then you're the biggest comedian in the world.
Pete: So after cricket though, after you failed at cricket. What did you do then? Was that the stepping stone to do comedy? Could you like, was it like too late to go to university or like, what was the,
Runi: well, I didn't go to a cricket university and that was my first mistake. I think when I, when I went into university, I think there was a brief period when I was, cause I studied engineering at university.
Pete: Okay. I would not have picked that, I did chemistry.
Runi: Okay. So then, then we are failures in different ways, which is more to our parents. But in university, I think when I decided that, okay, Cricket's not gonna happen at that point, I was probably searching for something to do and so I actually found comedy at the end of university in my last year. So there was probably like a three or three year period where I probably didn't have any idea of success.
Pete: You've gone through two failures to get to comedy. You've gone through cricket, you've gone through engineering. Did you ever get a job as an engineer?
Runi: I did. I did, but I considered that a failure in the sense that I was not happy in that job and I was just doing it for. You know, just to pay the rent and whatever. I wouldn't say it's a failure, but it definitely wasn't what I wanted to be doing. And I wouldn't have considered myself successful at that time.
Pete: What were like, what kind of engineering were you doing?
Runi: Uh, Software engineering. So like really boring it stuff basically.
Pete: Is it like building apps?
Runi: Software engineering is essentially any type of coding at all but you want to feel superior about it. But you get to say I'm a software engineer. Reality is you're a coder.
Pete: So it's like the difference between someone who went through film school and someone who just started making TikTok videos.
Runi: Yes, exactly.
Pete: One of those people is gonna be famous. And the other one film school post spent a shit ton of money.
Runi: a hundred percent the entirety of added a four year engineering degree in software engineering and basically we did exactly the same classes as the people doing like a three year BSC in computer science, but we get to call ourselves engineers.
Pete: But you've got the degree. You've got the thing on the wall. And that doesn't make you feel successful.
Runi: No, I guess it's, it's a great question because I don't count that as success, cuz it's not something that makes me happy,
Pete: but you put a lot of work into it. You've put three years of your life. Did you do well?
Runi: I did decently. I did. I probably could have done better if I applied myself more, but I didn't like fail or anything. Like I, you know, CS get degrees. If there's any kids listening. There isn't.
Pete: I think what they're learning from this is I would've thought, well, don't go to university. Just become a comedian guys.
Runi: I don't think anyone's listening to this and saying, this is what I want in my life. .
Pete: I mean, I hope someone's listening to this and thinking, you know what? Fringe sounds like a lot of fun.
Runi: I mean, wait, till they get to the part where you talk about how much you spent.
Pete: Well, I was just gonna say it is a lot of fun when you have great friends around you, but it's not a lot of fun when you look at your bank balance and realize that every seat in this room is costing you shit ton of money.
Runi: Absolutely. And that's the thing with the success thing. You're like, if you. To like have enough money to have a nice life then absolutely. You can consider yourself successful having that kind of job. And I'll be honest, , I'm feeling it now. Yeah. Not having money. Yeah.
Pete: Okay. That was my next question. How much is in your bank account?
Runi: Oh, I'm in Like minus 1000 right now,
Pete: minus 1000. Is that collectively across all bank accounts?
Runi: no, it's, it's basically collectively across and that's just the, the reality of like borrowing money to come to Edinburgh. I do, I do have like, cause so basically I now work part-time in IT but which can be really good if you've got like work coming in, it pays crazy. But when you don't have work coming in, it's empty. Cause that's just the way it is. So at the moment I'm at minus a grand hopefully I won't be in about a month or so. Cause I think I might have some work coming in.
Pete: Oh, is it 30 people are gonna pay more money tomorrow night?
Runi: Yeah, that's it that's. I mean, from my comedy, obviously. No so yeah, at point being that I am not at a place where I can be like- I'm comfortable.
Pete: And when you look around though, at other comedians yeah. And other people, cuz I assume like you want to be a comedian.
Runi: Yes, definitely. It's insane if I was here and I didn't wanna be.
Pete: And you've had, you've had successes, like you've, you know, you've been runner up to north down, right?
Runi: Yeah.
Pete: You've been signed. You signed. You're not signed.
Runi: Oh, very long question. I was signed I'm now actually in between agents. So I'm looking to sign again.
Pete: That sounds, sounds like a very common combination.
Runi: Oh yeah. I didn't realize how common it was until I got into the industry and I'm like, oh, okay. Fair enough. it's very fleeting. That's the other thing. Success is always really easy to see in other people. And then when you get it for yourself, even if you'd think it would be successful for someone else, when it happens to you, you're like, mm, is it the, have I been, yeah, you find excuses and it's so interesting cuz. If you spend five minutes thinking about it, you'll be like, why am I looking for an excuse if it's successful someone else to do it. And then I do it, I should consider it a success. But that, maybe that's just the way I am. I always will look at other people and be like, oh, they're doing something cool. And then as soon as I do that, cool, I'll be like, how cool was it if I'm doing it?
Pete: yeah. It's very much the fraud. The frauds there.
Runi: Oh, a thousand percent. It doesn't help when you're doing a podcast to an empty room.
Pete: I don't think anyone in Edinburgh Fringe right now is gonna be looking at me going, oh my God, I wish that I was Pete Wells. Right?
Runi: Hey, you're the one with a show called success. Maybe they want to see it. Maybe they want a part of it. I always say fake it to you make it.
Pete: I mean, I don't, but I don't want to, this is I've never been good at faking it. I've always,
Runi: I was gonna say, do you, you mean you don't want to fake it or you don't want to make it?
Pete: I don't wanna fake it. I would love to make it, but I wanna make it, I wanna make it without lying to people.
Runi: Of course, of course. Because you're a fundamentally good person and that's really hard to be in the comedy industry.
Pete: thank you. And that's probably why this is empty in the Marvel and the Marvel knockoff down the road is sold out
Runi: oh, that was so funny. We were walking past the line they're oh, we're here to see the Marvel show and it's like, oh man. Yeah, people, we, we are trying to be creative butterflies in this insane world.
Pete: I mean, he seems like a nice guy and I don't really want to knock comedians, but I'm going too.
Runi: I don't even know who's doing it.
Pete: I, I don't know his name either, but the first thing I was like, oh, is your show going well? And he. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we did, it was just part of the numbers. We just saw that people were lining up to Marvel movies and we thought that will get people in, like what I don't want. I don't wanna be, I don't wanna be that. I don't wanna,
Runi: I mean, to be fair though, now that I think about it, it would be kind of worse if he was like, you know what? I just really had a lot of comments on the Marvel cinematic universe. I feel like that's worse. It's more honesty. It's like, I have no care for this at all. Yeah. People lap this shit up of that. So maybe. Idea of success is bums on seats, money in the bucket.
Pete: What would you prefer? Would you rather go with one guy who's gonna watch your comedy? Love it, laugh, enjoy it. And they're gonna pay you as much as Amy Schumer. Like who do you want? It doesn't matter. Like someone who's doing really well, like someone we would consider is earning the big bucks!
Runi: Gotcha. Tousaint
Pete: yeah, Tousaint. Yeah, Tousaint Douglas.
Runi: Now your listeners will all get that tomorrow?
Pete: Would you rather, would you rather, one guy who's paying you as much as those big gun comedians, but you only ever get to perform to that one person, but they love it. Okay. But they love it. Like every time you perform in front of them, they're laughing, they're enjoying it. They're cracking up. They're making, they're like really, you know, you are your jokes, your ideas, your concepts.
Runi: I think you're just. What if your mum was rich, that's what you're asking.
Pete: What if your mum was rich? Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Runi: I wouldn't be doing comedy if my mum was rich. Yes. So that's what the answer is.
Pete: okay.
I don't think, I don't think your mum because you mum, you don't trust. I mean, like that's true. I mean, someone who's just, you know, I think the great thing to me about comedy is that you, the audience you can trust.
Runi: Okay. So that's the one option. What's the alternative.
Pete: The other option is you get crowds and grounds of people, but you never make money.
Runi: Ah, do you know. If I think about it, and this is gonna sound bullshit because no one's gonna believe me, but I would pick the second one. The crowds. Yeah, the crowds, if only because sitting in front of one person and making them laugh, only them a that's
Pete: maybe they bring their friends.
Runi: Hey, if they bring their friends, then fuck it. Then go for the millions.
Pete: all right. Not many friends,
Runi: not many friends. All right. Nevermind.
Pete: You'll have to fill this room.
Runi: You really have to be clear on these scenarios. I really need to know what the exact number
Pete: this is the first podcast we've done. So,
Runi: Yeah, no, I think I would go for the crowds because yeah, the genuine joy look, the money stuff is basically, I'd love to have enough to not be worried. Do you know what I mean? That's all, anything apart from that would be great bonus all of that, but I think the point of it, at least the point I started to go into comedy is cuz I get a genuine dopamine hit when people laugh at what I've just said. And if it's one dude, eventually that dopamine is gonna diminish.
Pete: I don't know, but you get, you get older, you see the sound, same crowds returning for the same acts, you know?
Runi: Yeah. But I think in enough numbers you can pretend they're different. I think when it's one guy you'll probably know his name at certain point, you know, like you're not gonna have one audience member paying you million. You're like, I'm not even gonna ask his name. You know, you would've done some crowd work to him at some point in the, over the course of your career.
Pete: So it's not money is numbers.
Runi: Yeah. Or it's it's I, yeah, it's reach, I guess I don't know . Yeah, you'd, I'd love to think that you get to it in front of enough people and then the money stuff comes. But that should be first, I think.
Pete: But if you look at the opposite, then sometimes reach is not, success.
Runi: That's the thing you've gotta balance it between. Like being, I guess, creatively true to yourself or whatever, because you can do a Marvel show that will get reach, but how creatively fulfilling is it? Hey, maybe, maybe it's fucking creatively fulfilling.
Pete: I will interview him on the street for the next podcast.
Runi: Yes, please do. Maybe Kevin Feige 's already picked them to write the next show or the next movie
Pete: Kevin Feige will be suing his ass off right now. He'll be like, how dare you. That's really funny.
Runi: That's also something Disney would do.
Pete: I just wanna point out that while I am paying for a tech guy, we're doing this podcast without literally the tech guy.
Runi: Yeah. Now I want to get to how much you paid for this because right. You've you've delayed it.
Pete: I've delayed it.
Runi: You've really push it to the back end of the podcast. You're hoping people would've too loud.
Pete: Well as someone, but you, you have done fringe.
Runi: No, this is my first fringe.
Pete: This is your first fringe?
Runi: It's my first time in Scotland.
Pete: What do you think the keys to success like keys to a successful Fringe are? Because I mean, I could tell you what they're not, but that's not, we're here to find out we're here to find out why.
Runi: Well, look, the good thing is I'm five days into my very first fringe and I can confidently say I figured this all out now. I understand everything about comedy. I would, first and foremost, I would say have very, have a very clear expectation of what you want going in.
Pete: You don't know what my expectation,
Runi: what was your expectation?
Pete: My expectation was not five empty rooms in a row. okay.
Runi: All right. Have a realistic expectation.
Pete: I thought that was a pretty, I don't know. What's more realistic than two people in an audience.
Runi: Very funny. I, I don't know. I, I think a successful fringe run is different for different people. Also it probably changes throughout the fringe run. Like you changing this into a podcast will change your definition of the light has gone off in this room.
Pete: I think, I don't know if that's a timer. That's like your fucked....
Runi: We're literally, in the dark now, but that's cool.
Pete: Well, the battery's still going. We can still talk.
Runi: We're still in. This is recording.
Pete: For the people in the audience, listening, if you have listened, not only have I paid I think the venue, this venue itself is twenty-four hundred pounds for the whole run. 2,400.
Runi: I dunno if anyone heard me exhaling there.
Pete: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's not, but that's not too much for a venue. No. Ideally the venue has power. What's happened now in the middle of our show and an audience in the middle of our show is not only is a tech guy left, but the power has gone out.
So
Runi: I mean it couldn't, if I'd written this, you'd be like, that's a bit, that's a bit convoluted. I mean, he's an unsuccessful, but he's the power going out as well.
Pete: He's an unsuccessful comedian.
Runi: The universe doesn't hate someone's that don't much.
Pete: You don't think this is a, this is a set up to show. "He's the most unsuccessful comedian in the world. He's trying to record a podcast. The power has just gone out."
Runi: He's literally, if I wrote it, I would get a note back being more realistic, please.
Pete: All right we should go back to you because eventually Connor will turn up and work out.
Runi: At the end of the show. Oh, here we go.
Pete: Connor, we've the power has gone.
Runi: The light's gone off.
Pete: You thought it might,
Runi: is it cuz you turned it off, but since it happened. Oh, okay. Now it's flashing.
Pete: Oh, the good thing is
Runi: we're still recording. We're fine.
Pete: We still recording. Cause it's on.
Runi: Let's just do the rest of them dark. "Oh, the audience can't see us."
Pete: Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So Connor, I just wanna point out Connor is the tech guy that I pay for. Yeah, for this show with no audience. Connor's great at doing the bucket speech aren't you.
Connor: Absolutely
Runi: lovely guys, please get Connor for your teching needs in the future. Anything if there's one takeaway from this podcast, I mean, I wanna Connor a success.
Pete: I wanna warn you though. I did find out he is gonna study chemistry.
Runi: Oh no,
Pete: he's gonna turn into me.
Runi: This is your future. If you study chemistry at it, this is your future. In 10 years, you'll be in an empty room that you've paid 2,400 pounds for, talking to a comedian. Who's also as unsuccessful as you are. Let's be Frank. Nobody's listening for, for me.
Pete: all right. Let's, let's, let's get back to you because my success is at the moment. I mean, I guess we're five days in, we're already laughing about it.
Runi: Well, if we're not laughing, we'll be crying.
Pete: Well, look that was yesterday, but today we're doing a podcast.
Runi: Yes.
Pete: So tell me more, let's tell me more about your success. So, okay. We've deviated for quite a while, but what we've done, we've gone from essentially, we've gone from cricket. We've gone to engineering. We've now we're focusing on comedy. And what level of success do you feel you've had in comedy so far?
Runi: I think in some ways I've been very successful and in more, ways I've been not successful.
Pete: So, let's look at two, what's been your peak moment of success in comedy? Like, this is the most amazing thing that's ever happened to me. And what was the low point?
Runi: So I'll give you, I'll give you two clear cut examples. All right. One is, I started writing for like TV in the last year and a bit, which I'm very happy with.
Pete: Are you able to tell us who you write for?
Runi: Yeah, I've written for like a, a few panel shows like Have I Got News For You, Hypothetical, and then very coolly over the last few months, I actually got to write for a little show called Horrible Histories. Which for a nerd like me was a little, you know, check mark of genuine, unbelievable that I got to do this.
Pete: And how did you, so how. And this is for me, really, how did that happen? Successful fringe run?
Runi: No, it wasn't, it's really interesting. I pretty much all of my stuff. I booked off my own bat except for horrible histories. That was with my old agent that they got me, that one. But apart from that, pretty much everything was basically just reaching out to people writing stuff, like writing packets and just sending them off.
And eventually you start with one credit, then it becomes two. Then it becomes four. And eventually you start to get 'em. But even as I say that, you know, there does, there's no guarantee that I'll be on the next series of any of these shows. You know, there's no guarantee that I'll be writing horrible histories again.
So all of these successes that do come are so fleeting that they don't really feel like success.
Pete: No, but you're not. Are you not getting, what about the feedback that you're getting? Does that not feel like success?
Runi: Of, yeah, the feedback actually does feel genuinely good, but, and that's probably the only thing that feels good because.
That's what you are ultimately wanting to do. You're wanting to, for people to, you know, connect with it or relate with it it then becomes tough because a lot of times you, I, for me, especially, cuz I sort of moved over to the UK at the worst possible time, like a month before pandemic hit. So for the last couple of years, it's been very weird time for me in the UK, especially cuz no one knows me.
So when people come up and you're like, You know, you've made them laugh or they like it, your stuff, or even you get good notes or whatever, you're like, that's fantastic. But as soon as that goes away, it replaces that feeling of like, but do people actually care? Do people even know who I am? And basically I'm still working on that.
You know what I mean? That's, that's still the constant question. So even if I have a good gig, I'd be like, that's great. But does this mean anyone's gonna come next year or I try and do a full show? Like, does this mean people are even gonna remember? I'll be honest with you. There's like three different Asian comedians with long hair and a beard and I've been mistaken for all of them. So that doesn't fill me with confidence.
Pete: I'm so sorry.
Runi: So it's it's an interesting one, but those moments, it's also important to remember that those moments are genuinely good and you should be happy that you've done them.
Pete: Do you use those moments to improve? Do you find that, is there like a crushing set or a, a joke that doesn't work? Do you, do you find that you, you go into yourself or do you push yourself more?
Runi: Honestly, I think you I'm trying to develop the instinct to always push more. Which is if you're ever feeling apprehensive about anything that should be the, the trigger inside you to be like, I just gotta dive into it. I'm not very good at that. more often than not. I like, I will be like, oh, I'm just gonna do the good material. you know what I mean? Or there's a crowd here. I'll just do the stuff. That'll make them laugh as opposed to, you know, what I want to grow as a community, challenge myself all.
Pete: And at Comedy Cabin I've I've seen you smash and I've seen you bomb.
Runi: Oh yeah, exactly, exactly. And so it's, and it feels so much nicer when you smash.
Pete: Yeah, it really does.
Runi: And you have to actively remind yourself, Hey, don't chase just that little bit. That fleeting moment. Like, oh, I made 12 people laugh cuz I knew this material was good. I have to put myself in situations where I'm uncomfortable to be like if 12 people didn't laugh, but it might become something. A couple of months down the line where we'll make a lot of people laugh. Then it's still worth it and it's still successful set, even if nobody laughed. Do you know what I mean?
And how do you define success for yourself? Like in comedy, for example?
Pete: Well, I was going to define it at the end of, at the end of my show. I was gonna define it as essentially, you know, mock the audience.
Runi: Yeah. For what you said, trusting that you're successful.
Pete: No, but what you said at the beginning is success to me, I've realized, is being paid to do the thing that you love.
Runi: Yep. Absolutely. That that, and that's such a simple, that doesn't mean I wanna be famous. Doesn't mean I wanna be paid millions. It just means I wanna be able to do what I like doing, and not be starving.
Pete: no, I want, and I want people to want me to do it.
Runi: Exactly. That's a great point because that idea of like, I want me to do it. Of course, I want me to do it, but you also don't like that feeling of like, if I was to quit tomorrow, nobody would care.
And that's awful as a feeling you want at least like three people to care.
Pete: just your mum.
Runi: I'll be honest. I, I want three unrelated people to me to care. that's actually what I want. All I genuinely want is if I was to announce tomorrow, I'm quitting comedy. I want three people to be like, no, don't, even if they don't push it.
Even if they're like, you know what fine, I actually don't care. At least the initial reaction. I'll be honest our run this, this, I mean, it looks great compared to this room, but , our run this, this Edinburgh,
Pete: Alright!
Runi: Has been, been quiet. We're in a massive room. We've had, we've had decent audiences, but it always feels like it's an empty room because it just is the space.
I have to like actively tell myself, it's fine. Like I'm, I'm doing, this is my first time in Edinburgh. I'm doing two weeks kind of just figuring out what I want to, you know, how I have to do it properly when I want to bring a proper show and everything. And, and so it's just by changing a perception of what is success. Cause if I find with me, if I give myself permission to be down, I will be down forever. I find it so easy to fall into that trap and so hard to be into like, just be happy.
Pete: Was there one, was there one gig that you remember being really?
Runi: Do you know what there wasn't oh yeah, there was a, there's a sort of like, I wouldn't say one, there's probably milestones along the way that I've been like, that's a cool moment.
Sort of just reminding myself that. I'm on the right track. So like writing for TV was one. Getting actually seeing my name and like the credits for a TV show was one. Which is also another, if people don't know, you could write for TV and never appear in the credits, if you've just not used your material, you get paid for it and that's again, it's the money thing. You're like, I got money for it but no reach. So that's probably been one of them.
One is a weird one. I just through like comedy, friends and stuff that I know, I ended up randomly hanging out in the green room at The Last Leg, And so I'm like hanging out on a couch, David Mitchell's to the left of me, like whims back there, Carrie Goleman's on the side and I'm like, oh, this is a fucking fever dream I'm having.
That's probably the most successful I felt, and I didn't contribute. I was just cause I'm a mate of the comedian who was like doing warmup. So that wasn't even related to my comedy. And I felt like, oh, oh, okay. I'm a, I'm a person. I'm someone here I made David Mitchell laugh, genuine, genuine highlight of my career.
Pete: I had sort of a similar, a similar experience but not with David Mitchell. With Shaun Micallef.
Runi: Oh, fantastic. Yeah. I love Shaun Micallef. He's genuinely one of the best australian commedians.
Pete: He's, Australia's David Mitchell, I would think.
Runi: Yeah. I mean he's yeah. Oh, he's he's so, yeah, he basically he's hosted like talk shows in Australia. He's just so funny. He should be bigger now that you say it I'm like, how do people know?
Pete: He went into Australian news, which is hard to break out of Australia, but very hard. No, so the, my, on my biggest, I guess, or one of my biggest crushing moments. It was just a moment that I think made me really think about what I was doing. Unlike this moment.
Runi: I feel this should definitely make you think about what you're doing.
Pete: Yeah. Yeah. It really does. I lined up for Shaun Micallef at the ABC store when they still existed and he was signing DVDs.
Runi: Okay. How old are you Pete?
Pete: I'm 38. If you'd seen the show, you would've known that.
Runi: Yeah. I was like DVDs. DVDs.
Pete: Yeah. Oh yeah. He was signing DVDs and I was lining up and thinking, all I was thinking was why am on this side of this table?
That was what I was thinking. It was like, I don't wanna be, I don't wanna be person signing. I want to be with Shaun Micallef. Working with him, doing comedy, doing some, like performing, writing like whatever it is. And I think I ended up in front of him, like really sheepishly going, how do I get into TV?
Runi: oh my God. That's hilarious. But he is a sweetheart. Isn't he?
Pete: He was quite bitter at the time. Cause he just he'd they've just been fired by Channel Nine, and he wrote don't work for Nine, Shaun Micallef.
Runi: Genuinely good advice. I, as, as someone from, as an antipodean person myself, I can second that advice.
Pete: So I've got Micallef Programme, Series 3 signed by Shaun Micallef.
Runi: That's such a great, I, that thing of like, I don't wanna be on this side of the table. I find that that often stops me from watching comedy a lot. Where I feel. I just get into my head where I'm like, if I, if I'm going, if I'm a consumer, then I'm not a creator. And the reality is no, everyone's got multitudes. You can be both. You have to be both. You are both. Everyone is both. But I do find it then becomes really tough to like, especially watching like straight standup or like even amazing standups.
I find it way easier to watch like a clown show or like improv show or even sketch and stuff, even though I can do like some of that stuff. That's not my forte. And so I find it easier to distance that idea of, oh, if they're doing it, that means I'm not doing it. And that's such a dumb mentality to have anyway, because there's no fucking limits on creativity.
Anyone can be as creative as they want.
Pete: We do judge ourselves by everyone around us and I think, even if it's not true, we look at social media, I've looked at, certainly looked at social media the last few days and you've probably have to.
Runi: God yeah.
Pete: All the, all your favorite people are going, oh my God sold out.
Runi: Oh, a thousand percent.
Pete: You know, five stars from this four stars from this...
Runi: It's tough because sometimes you would see some piece of evidence to be like, oh, they had a sold out show and now they're signed with a big agency. Therefore I need to have a sold out show. But you ignore the evidence of like, what about the 30 other people they signed, they didn't have sold out shows, but they were just like, oh, they're a great comedian.
So then you start focusing on, oh, but I never sold that show. I need to have sold that show. I need to be nominated. I need to be nominated.
The best comedians you'll ever see, probably never nominated for anything. And they started because it's hard to be good when you start.
Pete: And it's a lot of momentum as well
Runi: so much momentum. So much of it is like like what's in the cultural zeitgeist at the time. Kumail Nanjiani talks about it a lot where he sort of started comedy in America. And I'm now talking about a different comedian. I'm telling you his life story.
Pete: Fine. I'm gonna ask you what your biggest failure is in a second,
Runi: I'm gonna make this story very long then. No, so Kumail Nanjiani started comedy in America, like in 2001 and he was like, he's a Pakistani dude. It was not easy being a Muslim brown man in America, post 2001. But in, in, but his sort of comedy happened to be, and also at the same time, his comedy was very nerd culturie... Was very much talking about video games, movies, and, and stuff in a way that a lot of people weren't at the time. So all of these sort of things were like at the beginning of the career, you could be. He's not gonna make it. Who's gonna be a go firm, Muslim comedian in 2001. And then by the time it's 2006, 2007, he's like, oh, he's the one talking about like nerd culture, everyone's loving, like Marvel comes out, all that sort of stuff.
And then it's just like, oh, all of he's probably, he's probably been the same person. I mean, he's probably been a better comedian, but it just is the way it is. You know what I mean? Like it, it there's so much chaos around it that you it's so easy to ignore and take it personally. You have to actively remind yourself that there's so much at play that you just have no control over.
Anyway, my biggest failure.
Pete: What is your biggest failure? What do you consider your biggest? It doesn't have to be career. Could have been anything.
Runi: I killed a man once that was bad. No, I, that wasn't a failure.
No my biggest failure I would say. In hindsight, I think this won't be a failure, but at the moment, and certainly at the time it felt like the biggest failure.
Pete: Stop giving away the answer of the show during the course of your answer.
Runi: It's when I came to do this podcast.
Pete: Yeah.
Runi: It was so basically a couple of months before this fringe my agent out of the blue just like dumped me. And that happens in the comedy industry. There's lots of churn. It, it there's million different reasons. But it's hard not to take it personally especially when you are, like me coming to a new country and then signing with an agent. I'm like, okay, I think I'm on the right track again. It's one of those milestones that you tick off and you're like, all right, I'm on the right path. And then when it goes away and it wasn't very well explained why.
Pete: I guess it's like any, that's like any rejection, any breakup. It's never explained.
Runi: Exactly. And you'll, you can drive yourself mad, trying to think about it. I think at the time that felt the most like a failure, even though if I look at it objectively, I know they weren't the right agent for me.
I'm hopeful that in the long run that maybe there's a lesson there and failure isn't actually failure. But at the time it was like, Ooh, I'm a terrible comedian, who's never gonna make it. Who loses an agent, like who even does that? Like, they've looked at me and they're like, actually we made a mistake, your dog shit and you know, that's not true, but that's how your brain works.
Pete: How did they tell you?
Runi: They told me, did it look at 6:00 PM the evening before a four day weekend.
Pete: Fair enough. And then like via email.
Runi: Yeah. Via email.
Pete: And then you reply and it's like,
Runi: I got out of office, baby! In a way that was, that tells me that they probably weren't the best agent for me, if they were the kind of people who would do that.
Pete: But it's funny though, because that's not, I mean, that's not really your failure though, is it because there's nothing about that, that is really about you.
Runi: Exactly. It's also very easy to forget when comedy in particular, that agents work for you, not the other way around. Yeah. So. You're right. You're absolutely right. But especially when you are in such a chaotic industry and you're sort of clinging to any good piece that comes your way, when something that gets taken away, it's so hard to not feel like that's a backwards.
And the reality is it's not a backwards step. You never step backwards every single day you get up and do comedy. You're becoming a better comedian, and you're becoming more, you're moving towards wherever the goal is you want to get to.
Pete: And eventually you'll find that an audience that clicks that really loves you.
Runi: A thousand percent and that's, I think we're really lucky that way.
Pete: Hello!
Runi: Hello! Are you here for the show?
Nope.
Pete: Yep.
Runi: Yeah.
Pete: that's the most number of audience members I've had so far and they're not even here for my show.
Runi: They came in and they looked mortified and they were Nope. What is the title?
Pete: Well, I think that's probably all we've got time for in our one hour booked comedy room with zero people.
Runi: Thank you all for coming out and watching us.
Pete: No, thank you for coming. Do you wanna plug your show?
Runi: Yeah. So Toussaint and I are doing a free show at the Edinburgh Fringe, Just the Tonic's at the grass market center. Nice. It's at 4:50 every day till the 14th.
Pete: All right. Well, I'll try and get this podcast out before then.
Runi: As I said it I'm like, there's literally no point .
Pete: Yeah, I know who knows.
Runi: I'll plug me if you want to follow me on Instagram. It's @runitooni, R U N I T O O N I. And thank you.
Pete: what's your most successful tweet.
Runi: Oh, I genuinely do you mean by numbers or the thing that made me happiest?
Pete: I, well, okay. Well, it was interesting which one made you happiest it?
Runi: Wasn't the one that got the most numbers.
Pete: Interesting.
Runi: The thing that made me happiest was once when I tweeted I think about Sean Paul singing daily struggle three times a week. And Sean Paul liked it.
Pete: all right. So we go right back to the beginning; you want Sean Paul paying for your career?
Runi: Oh my God. That's all I want. That is all I want. Love. You've changed my perception on success. Pete, everyone needs to listen to this podcast. It will change your life.
Pete: All right, thanks mate. And I'm doing a fringe.... (both laugh).
Where I interview comedians about how their shows are doing better than mine. I've been Pete Wells - thanks so much!
